Stick Welding Sheet Metal with 6013 rods! Beginner Welding Series! This is the thinnest sheet metal I have ever welded using this process. I'm welding very thin 16 gauge metal to even thinner 20 gauge metal It's not easy to do but it can be done with a little practice. Learn some tips and tricks as I get this repair work done!
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Good honest real world repair job, on stuff like that, backing the joint with some copper strip or heavier steel can help avoid burning through-if of course you can get to the underside of the job. Stop n start helps (its how I weld vertical up with 6013 if I have to). Did I hear you say "its just a wheelbarrow" what a thing to say about the thing you take your cash to the bank in each week.
+Brandon Lund wish I could post photos. Repairing floor section of a small Chevy dunmp body. Guy just wants a sheet layover he can't afford a full rebuild down to the rails. It WAS 1/8th. But it's so rotted, after hours of grinding abd wire wheels all that's solid is ~16ga. And he had two sheets of 16ga steel. So I'm tryibg to just get enough tacks in to hold it down over the old floor to get him by. He doesn't put much in it and just stays around town. But even with 1/16 6011abd 6013. It blows through instantly. Even on the new sheet. And I'm at ~40amps. I don't understand what's happening I've never had an issue. But I rarely weld thin material period. Let alone with stick. I'd rather TIG it. But way too dirty..
Maybe because of the rust, and the slight gap from tge floor being wavy is giving me arc blow?
I can do an arc force setting. Maybe I should mess with that.
Im running a Miller maxstar 220. DCEP
+Brandon Lund cool tyvm. I was thinking my base, which is Rusty, is a little thicker than my clean patch metal (16ga is all we have). Maybe if I run a 6010/6011 on the rusty part, right on the edge of my clean 16ga. Then run a bead using 6013 connecting the clean 6010/6011 bead to the clean 16ga
Can you please do a vid on amp setting on different thickness welding? Or at least tell me what amps per thickness cos i always burn through or sticks like shit ! Lol cheers from Australia! Any reply appreciated thanks!
Hey Edmond, in one of my welding thin metal videos (i cant remember which one) I talked about a welding calculator. It shows different amperage for different rods and materials. Maybe this summer i'l do an in depth video doing just that! Thanks man!
lol ... I bet that burnt the shit out of your finger using mechanics gloves to hold that nut in place while you tacked it.
For sheet metal, 6013 on straight polarity (DC-) that's what its designed for! 5/64" would made things a little easier because of the lower amperage. 3/32" is for 1/8" and up metal thickness unless you're whipping the rod (circles for 6013 in the flat position) and moving along at a decent clip.
You got some open-root stick welding experience and started the keyhole but didn't finish it 😊
You done alright, just look at the way the auto-body guys weld sheet metal to cars to avoid distortion/warpage ... tack, tack, tack, tack, then grind all of them off flush, body filler, add some paint, and no one is any the wiser!
Hot-Start and Arc-Force aren't the same thing. Hot-Start bumps the amperage a split second to help strike/establish the initial arc where as Arc-Force allows for short-arcing and when it since the voltage drop it bumps up the amperage to keep the arc from being snuffed out by again giving it additional amperage.
Nice fix 😉
Even if the welds can be crappy and chunky to barely get the job done, why?
Add another 10 minutes to the job and clean the damn metal. It will make the difference between having to explain shit work every time someone sees it and shakes their heads or having them impressed with your work.
Never do things half slow because the rest will be..........
I could have really done it right and sand blasted it, sprayed it with weld through primer then sent it off to powder coat so everyone could gather around in amazement but at the end of the day it's still a wheelbarrow and it really doesnt matter. The repair will outlive us both.
Thanks for the video. Many years ago i did some welding underground in the mine but it was always very heavy material. I wasn't really a welder but sometimes I had to do my own welding when mechanics couldn't get to where I was working. I got to be OK but never did learn how to handle sheet or thin material. Learned a lot here. Thanks again !!
Good job Brandon, you were using d.c. I have an a.c. industrial welder and it welds horribly and I have ground most off and intend to purchase a "Tig" welder and use "Argon Gas" to shield the molten pool. . . I believe you can go down on amperage below 40 amps the Tungsten allows you to weld without all the popping and sputter with little to no clean-up. I tried to get a 200 amp diode but no one has one in this area except "e bay" a diode will change the a.c. to d.c. for better arc stability.
+Brandon Lund maybe that's why it was easier than I expected it to be? A *lot* easier..?
Oh, well. Now to get in more practice for thick(ish) plate, i.e. 1/4 - 5/16 inch for the bulk, and thicker still for the press's *platen* (or wharever the piece that the jack sits on is called... Shrinking an HF 20 tonner for width and height, so it fits in limited space better...)
Dennis Young you are right that the arc does not act the same on rust as on bare metal which is why it’s always best to to clean it well, but in a pinch it can be done...it just won’t be as good if you had cleaned it. You did it right by cleaning it well. Cheers brother!
+Brandon Lund I thought it would misbehave if it wasn't cleaned - which is why I cleaned the surfaces down to clean shiny metal yesterday before fixing the two things I did. (With 6013, also - 1/16 inch.)
I guess if it works, it works. Both repairs held 'well enough' for me. (Sometimes adequate cleaning isn't possible...)
Dennis Young good question, the proper answer is you should always get the metal to bright and shiny, however in the real world this non structural repair will probably outlive me. I’m not concerned with slag inclusion or porosity. This wheelbarrow was once used to haul concrete so save yourself from the iron oxide and concrete dust and save the abrasive :)
Wow, Very skilful welding on difficult material! You're right, they don't have to look pretty, just a wheelbarrow, only needs to be strong & functional. 3/32" electrodes - that works out to be about 2.4mm - they are very thick! No wonder they recommend 70A minimum. I am wondering why you would not use smaller electrodes, such as 2mm or 1.6mm. A lot less heat generated and less starting amps required. A good inverter arc welder like that one should have good control right down to 20A.
Thanks Steven! Yah these rods were big considering the material I was welding. I have a few videos out with very small rods 1/16" and they would have worked well for this. Like you mentioned, this little inverter welder will go way down low and still initiate a crisp arc.
Dude, next time get yourself some 1/16 6013:and above all clean those weld areas up with a wire wheel or at leas sandpaper. To get those stupid carriage bolts off chop them with a whiz wheel or a 4,5 “ grinder and a cutoff disk . Those bolts are $2/ pound at tractor supply. Also as said before just icky up some huge oversized washers there as well. They will suck up the heat more and it will weld easier.
Also consider using a piece of scrap copper water pipe flattened as a backer while you weld It will suck up the heat prevent burn through( some of it) and make the job go better. I keep a piece hanging on the wall just for such a thing.
Don’t get me wrong I’m not criticizing here just suggesting ways to make it better and easier
Great tips and spot on about Tractor Supply. I buy all my fasteners there. You cant beat their prices. I have some 6013 1/16" videos I did a head to head comparison with straight and reverse polarity on thin metal. They are super springy! I probably should have ground the rust for demonstration purposes, but for practical purposes, it wasn't really necessary for what the application was. Fender washers were a good idea also, but that would have required me to drive to the store and AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FOR THAT!! LOL Cheers brother.
Hey sir do you want to learn more about on how to stickweld a thin metal. If you want to Watch my video on how i stickweld the 1.2mm flatsheet metal and Using the gasless mig and stickweld. Heres the title sir of my vid. so you can easyly find it on youtube. Powerhouse gasless migweld/powerhouse trditional stickweld comparison(sbm)welders of the north philippines.
@Brandon R good question. There are actually 2 things going on. Arc Force prevents the electrode from sticking during welding, while Hot Start temporary increase the output current during the start of a weld. In other words, Arc Force compensates by increasing or decreasing current based on how close or how far you hold the electrode off the work piece while hot start is just temporary to keep the rod from sticking until the rod is lit. Straight polarity as you pointed out is better suited for thin metals.
I have a Lincoln AC box and I just welded super thin gauge metal just fine. Btw, I used spare rods in case I blew a hole through sheet metal and I use those spare rods I have lying around to do my poor man's TIG welding on sheet, fusing every piece of bare rod onto sheet.
I weld it quite often.. I just use the same rod for everything.. 6011 1/8".. Same technique you used with the touch and go.. But, i put more angle on the rod, aim it at the thicker base metal, turn the amps down a little,,, get my puddle on the new base metal and whip it into the thinner rusty wheel barrel metal.. You are basically only pulling/pushing the puddle that you already have going from the thicker metal down to just touch the thinner metal..Of course, it is faster than it sounds.. Each tack probably 1.5 seconds at the absolute most.. But, you can still stack the beads when you control your puddle from the thicker base metal..
But, best to gas weld it with a coat hanger or something.. Ha.. And, if you use yours to mix a bag of quickcrete from time to time,, you are going to wish you put those patches on the bottom side.. Ha..Ha.. I have one just about like yours..
I had to beef up the cement mixer the other day.. build some new bushings, rebuild the old motor mounts that were rusted just about away.. Had to beef up a creek dam behind my place a bit and put a drain filter in it, since I was working on the creek with the backhoe the other day..
Nice Job on the Skillet.. I figured 7018 would work.. I'm sure 6011 would to.. A 400 degree preheat would just about guarantee a good weld without cracks, etc..
A guy bet me one time that I could not weld Copper to mild steel over some beers.. For the Challenge, (Another Case of Beer), I welded a flattened out piece of 1/2" copper pipe to a 1" thick solid stock mild steel bar.. If you can't tear it away without copper being left in the weld.. I win.. Ha.. I enjoyed his beer.. Ha..Ha.. I took $20 from the same guy years ago when he said I could not weld some 20ga sheet metal with the penetrating 6011 1/8".. Said I needed to use 3/32 or at least 6013..
Half way through the bet, he said, it had to hold water.. Ha.. Ok,, I will make a second pass after I grind the first.. Well, I found a few little pin holes and sealed them up too.. He yells "Oh Shit" when I tell him,, I'll bet you.. Ha.. I keep telling him.. I never went to school to learn I could not do all of these things.. Ha..Ha. Cheers.. Enjoy the videos.. I have probably 20 of them I would like to upload but I just go from project to project.. Might have some short ones I don't have to edit and put together and can just upload from my phone.. Ha.. Later..
I have been doing this for years, while using a Mig does a cleaner weld, it has a tendency to push through thin metal. That coupled with the fact the the wire has a habit of kinking inside the cable makes it more trouble than its worth. I have been repairing a beat up old Model A Ford fender using my trusty old stick welder. I added two patch panels and welded them in and ground them smooth inside and out, it’s about 80 percent done and by the time it’s finished you won’t be able to tell it was stick welded.
Thanks! Funny you mentioned the linseed oil, that's exactly what I used on the handles. I was going to use poly but I had some left over from a project. I'm tossing the idea of building a splitter but I don't have a good understanding of hydraulics so I'm not really sure.
Nice video brother!! I find the tac method works very good! I used to stick weld alot, but I find it is bulky. I just use a flux core welder. If you have time check out this video were I tried welding razors blades https://youtu.be/ecvohL7d1NU Thanks I subbed
I purchased New 200 amp stick welding machine recently, i have a Knob called arc force I would be thankfull of you make a video on arc force control and types of welding rods to use on metals and the current (amps) used for welding. your videos are useful to beginners like welding cast iron sheet metal welding etc.
Be sure to click the notifications button, I will be doing just that. I have some "how to" videos on welding thin metal in my "beginner Welding" playlist if you haven't seen them yet. Thanks for watching and congratulations on your new welder!
i welded some 1/8'' plats onto the sheet metal on my car with a 110 volt buz box with 6011 at 100amps. if you slowly scratch on one spot enough it slowly builds up enough material to were a bead can be welded over it... scratching, long arcing to spray metal on the thin sheet before welding. was not easy.
+Swampy I recently was researching this topic and noted the following; DCEP will put more heat into the base metal and therefore more penetration. DCEN will put more heat into the electrode. I have tested both and found this to be true. If I used DCEN on thicker metal, its deposition rate was very high, but tended to not blend into the base metal unless I cranked up high amps. DCEP blends with the base metal really well, but will easily blow holes in thinner metals.
Gordon Reiher Thanks buddy! Ansen spiked the price to over $1200 after my review so I will no longer promote them. I’m using the 160sti Blue Demon (TIG and Stick combo) and I’m using it in this video on 120 volts. I’m very impressed so far. The next 2 episodes we are going to see just how far I can push this welder. Take care brother!
It's like deja-vu...similar problem with a similar wheel barrow. It was my parents' wheel barrow (I would have thrown it away ). Bolts were just like yours. I liked your solution, I'll tuck it away for later ... mine was an angle grinder. Got those off and went to change the wheel and those bolts were spinning in the wood and couldn't get to any of them. After investing most of an afternoon on it I convinced my mom it would make a great planter. They don't need to be running around with a wheelbarrow anyway !
I have that same ring tone. ..it got me.
D Rickard great minds think alike!!! :) i can totally relate to blowing an entire day feeling like your spinning your wheels. That's a typical day in the shop for me lol I like your solution though! That wheelbarrow won't be giving anyone problems anymore! It seems like the only time my phone rings is whenever the camera is rolling. It's usually a telemarketer and I like to include them in my video! Lol
I would just like to suggest to you, next time you have a job like that, try 6011 using the same technique. May be just my preference but I dislike 6013 it is prone to porosity, 6011 on the other hand has much less flux, and less prone to porosity. I did successfully use 6011 on thin metal with a buzz box. Not telling you what to do, this is just a suggestion.
Jaques Daniels I got a lot of great viewer comments and suggestions on this video which prompted me to pick up some small diameter 6013 and 6011 rods and make passes using dcen and dcep and then doing a side by side comparison. The arc force must have a lot to do with it because I've never had good luck with 6013 either. Wait until you see the comparison video.
By coincidence, Uncle (LOL) Bob Moffatt has just done a video on rusty steel using 6011 over on weld.com, second coincidence, is I just did a job on thin wall steel tube to rusty old tube. I used 6013s and cleaned up the steel best I could, inverter welder EN. 2.5 mm rods at 40 amps, plus a try with 1.6mm 6013s. Not pretty, it seems to me the problem with 6013 on inverters at low amps is arc blow- it looks like the arc does not have enough juice to push the slag back, I don't have arc force settings on my old inverter, nor do I have a buzz box I could have switched to,so I had to do hotter passes and start n stop to avoid blowing holes, I still ended up with what we limeys call "Farmers welds" or Pigeon poop welding.
Richard Valcourt interesting Richard! I might just give that rod a try... I've never had great luck with 6011 rods running real low amperage on a buzz box so maybe I'll give it a try on this dc unit. It might make for an interesting video! Thanks buddy
Ray B. I was running electrode positive but you are correct, electrode negative generally results in less penetration (good for thin metal). I don't seem to get as good results though... It's probably because I have not run it much. I am going to be doing a bunch of thin metal and electrode comparisons in a future episode and we will burn some rods on electrode negative and check it out. Thanks for the suggestion...be sure to look for it in an upcoming episode!
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