6011 Vs 6013 Which ROD and Polarity is BEST for WELDING SHEET METAL? Have you ever wondered what the difference is between 6011 and 6013 electrodes and what happens if you switch from DC Positive DCEP to DC Negative? DCEN Here is a side by side comparison of how each of these rods performs on sheet metal doing exactly that! See the results for yourself! The test material we used is 16 gauge (1.29 mm) sheet metal and the rods are 1/16" (1.6 mm) 6011 and 6013. The manufacturer recommended running these rods at 20-40 amps. I found that 20 amps was the sweet spot on my machine.
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Disclaimer: These videos are intended for entertainment purposes only and as such, you should not attempt to do any of the things you see me doing. Always read and follow the manufacturer’s safety guidelines before handling tools. Seek professional advice and training before using any welding equipment. Never operate any tool without wearing the proper personal protective equipment. Final warning, Do not attempt to do any of the things you see me doing!
I've read up on using a little thicker rods than 6013 but removing the flux off the rod ... I'm curious how that would work... could you possibly include a fluxless rod in a vid on thin sheet like in the current vid....im very curious!!! Great vid bro!
+Brandon Lund thanks for getting back to me. The fluxless rod was something I seen on a message board and the subject was on automotive sheet metal ... at first I thought "bullsh*t" then got thinking about how thin that type of sheet metal is and so little heat to fuse and fill .... my mind has burn marks from curiosity....
All the seasoned pros say electrode positive is best, but i too have found that electrode negative gives me way more heat and arc force than electrode positive. The results with 6011 on my side is that dcep at 60 amps gives me similar results as 40 amps give with dcen.
Yes, just switch your leads. If you have to weld exhaust tubing use EN with 1/16" 6013 rod. It wont be easy. Exhaust tubing is very difficult to stick weld without blowing through. Wear a mask. Some exhaust tubing has galvanized coatings which is toxic. You don't want to breath in the fumes. Disconnect your battery and be very careful around fuel lines.
For the new guys watching this: Never buy rods in those 1 lb plastic cases like you see here! You’ll get robbed blind for something that lasts almost indefinitely . Unless it’s some sort of specialty $$$rod you aren’t likely to use up always buy 5 or 10 lbs box. The plastic boxes store them nicely and youll use those general purpose rods up somewhere sometime. Some LWS carry a house brand generic that are cheap . I get most of mine at Tractor Supply (Hobart).
+Steven W lay the rod at a fairly steep angle. Not vertical. 6013 is fluid. A steep drag angle keeps the molten weld puddle pushed back and lessens slag inclusion. That's how 6013 is supposed to be run.
That's a direct contradiction of what Lextech said, 4 comments above you. He said this guy had TOO much angle and should stand the rods up more. You say he needs MORE angle. Who do I believe? Well I have to experiment myself and see what works best for ME.
I've got 49 pounds of 7024 from 15 years ago that disagrees with you :) lol. Seriously though, for me these little rods aren't anything I use often so anything more than a pound or so and I'm just wasting money and storage space. Now 1/8" 6011 and 7018 is a different story. I buy that by the 50lb box, so yah if your going to use it, buy in bulk. You will save a lot of money overall compared to buying it by the pound. A 1 pound box of 6013 will last me for YEARS lol. Cheers brother!
+doug bormann That is correct, however, many of the inverter type DC welders will not run a 6010 rod due to the open current voltage. 6010 rods are very common with pipeline welding using a DC Engine Drive Welder (the welders you see on the back of welding rigs).
Good question. If your asking IF it can be done, than yes. If your life depended on it you could make a 6010 stick something together but it will look horrible and it will refuse to stay lit because 6010 rods are an AC ONLY rod. If you want the deep penetration that a 6010 rod gives, just run a 6011. It's basically the same rod except it's designed for AC or DC.
Hey this was incredibly useful! Thanks alot!
Video Idea: How about you test these same rods on the thinnest steel possible, such 24 gauge or thinner. Your wheelbarrow weld video was awesome, but it'd been cool to take on a challenge like that in the methodical testing format of this video.
Try out different techniques to avoid burning through, such as tacking opposing sides, using a filler rod & clamping on a thick piece of metal as a heatsink. Maybe try it with the the arc starting assist on your system turned on & off.
That would make a REALLY interesting video imho. I'm a novice who's been researching welders over the last few days to try to understand the limits of each method, I've combed youtube and haven't found a video like that out there. I know it'll probably be a pain in the ass to make though. Lol.
edit: even further, test how flux core does on these same pieces of metal. And then bend test them with a sledge hammer.
Thank you. This is an excellent idea! It will be a PTA to make, but I think it will be very educational once done. Thanks for the suggestion and I appreciate your support. Keep your eyes open for this video in the new year! Thanks again, Brandon
Thank you for the video. I picked up the Tractor Supply Co. Metal Man arc80 recently. I haven't done any stick welding in 8-10 years and forgot a lot. Checking these videos helps quite a bit. Good info. As far as the metal man 80... not bad. It's a good light weight machine for home use...runs on 110v 20 amp. First time my son used it he laid down a nice bead. I'm gonna pull out some scrap and practice. I did manage to drop a small project and your video helped me. Thanks again.
Congratulations on your new welder purchase and I'm glad I was able to be of some help. I saw the Metal Man for the first time this weekend at my local Tractor Supply but i wasn't able to see much of it because it was still in the box and they did not have any displays set up. It's a good feeling when you can fix, repair and build things around the house using your own tools and equipment.
You might try the 7014 1/16" rods for thin metal. Harbor freight use to carry them, but no more. If you can't get them locally, you can order them on line thru places like Home Depot and have them delivered to the store for pickup for free. The 7014 on EN is more "butter" than the "blast" of the 6011/6013 rods. For more rod control I've cut the 1/16" rods in half and used them to reduce the springy nature. I use them with my HF 80A 120V inverter welder.
6013 needs to be run with an increased drag angle than what was used in the video. 6913 also has the weakest penetration. It’s perfect for sheet metal and that’s about it. After MIG (GMAW) was perfected in the late 80’s, SMAW (aka: “stick”) went by the wayside for the average hobby welder.
Another fantastic video. I was using 6013 DCEP, and was burning straight through some of my metal. Fortunately, I was able to mess around with it enough to fill in the gaps, but they are not strong welds at all. I will have to do a lot of practice tomorrow, and try switching to DCEN and try it again. I am building a frame for a battery box using angle steel that is lightly galvanized and has the holes cut in it, like what you would see on a sign post.
Thanks for making great videos to share your knowledge.
+Anon Ymous awww man that sucks! FYI, (if it happens again) drink milk...it will help make you feel better much quicker. It helps rid your body of the zinc. Glad to hear the welding is coming along and I hope your feeling better. Cheers brother!
+Brandon LundThanks, man. I went out and bought some mild steel for practicing on. Welding on the galvanized steel last night really messed up my lungs, and i had to call in sick to work today. Felt better this afternoon, so tried welding DCEN. Had a much better outcome.
The more you do, the better you get. Your probably aware, but just be careful welding on galvanized. The fumes are very poisonous. Some of the things you can do are - use a respirator, grind off the galvanized or weld it in a very well ventilated area. I prefer to grind and weld with a respirator. Cheers brother!
They aren't "springy" you have too much rod angle. These 16th rods will run smooth as a 1/8 7018 and slag peel every time. All those choppy beads are from welding sideways. They run best at 40 amps. Stand the rods up properly so they run smoothly. These little 6013 are some of my favorite rods. You'll enjoy them if you do.
A lap joint on thin sheet metal is not a good rod test. A better test rod test would be a butt joint with a slight gap. A 6011 is a high penetration rod. You'll find that it has a tendency to blow right thru the gap. 6013... They're sometimes called an all purpose farmer rod that works on AC buzz boxes . They're much better for thin sheet metal because they're not a high penetration rod. It won't blow thru as readily. It also helps to hold the rod on more of an angle and travel a bit quicker.
6013 is recommended for thin sheet metal. 6011 isn't. 6011 is more for burning thru paint and rust. It's also used for a root pass on heavy pipe.
As you stated...Thin rods are wiggly. Shortening the rod by cutting it in half helps a lot.
This information came at the right time for me. Am a novice in welding and am trying to do a DIY welding project.
Here in Zimbabwe the only rods that are easily available are the 6013s, and the smallest is 2.5mm. I have been having challenges using it on square tubes 1.6mm thick. Was using DCEP at about 78A with a lot of blow holes. I think I am going to switch to DCEN, judging from what you have just shown in the video, I think I will achieve better results.
Thank you, from Zimbabwe.
Thank you for your comment! I love hearing from viewers across the country and hearing about their projects. 6013 can be a little difficult to weld with. I cant remember if I mentioned it in the video, but try experimenting with a steeper drag angle also. 6013 likes a somewhat steep angle. Cheers and thank you for your support.
Thanks for running this video. I had an old welder tell me that as a rule of thumb to run any rod ending in an odd number on DCEN and those that end in an even number run on DCEP. I've kind of lived by this rule even though the rods are sometimes recommended to be run the opposite way (like 6011). However, based on your results, it looks like he is right.
Other videos don't really go into detail like that or do the comparison of welding electrode positive versus electrode negative. This video really explained and demonstrated the difference.Thank you much!
6011s are more of a high penetration rod for dirty metal.
6013s were designed for sheet metal so I'd stay with those if you're intent on stick welding sheet metal.
I had a body shop back in the day, MIG & oxy acetylene pretty much covered everything.
For auto body work, especially sheet metal restoration stuff, it would be nice to see how butt welds could work out. Low amp settings and good penetration without burning holes is tough. Mig works best, but a lot of folks don't have mig and 6013 was designed for sheet metal back in the day. Maybe you could try some butt welds with 1/16th. 6013 one day. Thanks for the good vid.
Cheers mate that was clear & precise & understood .It worked as you said. The sheet i was welding yesterday was far to thin for the rods .Seeing this vid (just got back inside from retrying a weld on the same size steel plates you used) a noticeable difference lol that's how a bead should lay yeehaww
+scorp NZfor 6013 I pretty much just lay the rod in there gently and hold a pretty decent drag angle. I went back and looked at the video and it looks a little exaggerated but you want it fairly steep. Im not forcing the rod in, but I'm also not holding a gap. There is basically no weight or pressure against the tip of the rod. 6013 is very fluid so having no gap combined with a steep drag angle helps to keep the puddle blown out ahead of the rod (which is why it's so easy to get slag inclusions with this rod). Having very little drag angle will allow the puddle to wash back and cause slag inclusions and porosity. I hope that was clear enough. If not, let me know. I run 7024 pretty much the same way also, just not as steep. 6013 rods usually start very easy so if your sticking, try turning up your amps a little, hold a steeper drag angle and just lay the rod in and see if it inproves.
I'm no welder however even i agree that's a tall order .the amount of heat even on a lap joint i suspect would just blow through & that's just for a tack since you wouldn't be able to continue the bead without it doing so .Not sure if even a heat sink in the rear would work either .For sure those rods you use in the vid are dam whippy alright lol it's like your seeing double when welding as it has that flex movement going on (i have some & was using them yesterday .They're a freaky rod to use i.e small 6013) Must get some 6011 & see how they go .Just to clarify the 6013 you actually didn't hold the rod off the metal but put it on it & dragged ? i must try that .I also found not enough amps made the slag stick in the weld & make holes where the slag solidified grrrr , however now that Richard mentioned about heat on the base metal that could be why i was having issues
Thanks man! I can tell you that butt welding sheet metal is a tall order, but I will gladly give it a try. The blue demon has an awesome hot start feature and I think this would be mandatory with running the amps as low as I would have to for this to work...I like your idea! Thank you!
FYI I find the Lincoln 3/32" 6011's burn MUCH better with inverter welders.. I have Hobart 3/32" 6011's and can't maintain an arc.. I think the low OCV on inverter welders is the issue.. Lincoln rods work well in other sizes and types too..
+Ray B. Great advise! It took me a minute, I was pretty sure I had done a whip and pause. Thanks buddy for your input and suggestion. THIS is what the comments are made for. HERE YOU GO RICH https://youtu.be/1s2IfAG4IVE
You're welcome Rich! Please repost after you try them.. If you haven't learned the whip & pause method I suggest you look for this here or perhaps Brandon Lund can demonstrate this technique if he hasn't already done so..
Thanks for sharing this. I have a small inverter welder and running 6010 is almost impossible. I can run every other rod (6011 is better than 6010 but not great either) but I haven't tried the Lincoln rods. I'll buy a couple pounds of each and give it a shot.
EP has deeper penetration, EN does not.....
I didn’t know you’re in New England, I’m in Rhode Island not to far from you. That’s cool! 7018 tends to like DCEP from what I see. Good comparison of 6011/6013
Hello Brandon saw you at the fair in skowegan nice family. Keep up the good work looking forward to more of your videos. Cute inspector wonderful child the best of luck to you and your family..take care...good man and great videos..
jonathan lucier you actually made my day today. You are the first person that has ever approached me because they recognized me from my channel. Im glad you did and thank you. I was with my wife, grandsons and her mother and father. Plus we won 3 dollars on the horses so it was a great day all around. Thanks again buddy and I appreciate the support :)
For anything *other* than pipe, I've found 6011 to be best for just tacks or short runs on things that have to be fixed in place with minimal prep. It does go deep, but it doesn't have good flexibility for things that get any torque.
CavemanJoe I’ve never had good luck just dragging 6011. It could just be how I was taught. For lap joints, I tend to focus on the toe of the bottom plate and wash the puddle back flush with the upper plate.
Jim Allmon thanks! Yes this welder will easily handle spring mounts. I’ve done it with my 140 mig on flux core wire but it’s really pushing it on 1/4” plate. This welder will easily handle 1/4” and up.
D Rickard i saw that! They arent $209 but they are keeping the price reasonable...(lets see how long that lasts lol). I would love to promote that welder some more on my channel, but I'm afraid they will get greedy again if they find out my vierers are interested in it (like last time). I have it in my amazon store but I probably won't do any more videos with it unless I can get a price guarantee from them.
Ronald Parady that’s a pretty good deal... I tend to like good deals so i personally would probably go for it. My only concern would be what happens if the unit is damaged... will it be replaced with no hastle and who pays the shipping. If they are willing to accept all the charges on a return, it sure would save you some cash $$$, which is always nice :)
Agree with you 100% Brandon. As far as polarity, when welding on dcep the heat is directed on the workpiece, when welding on dcen the heat is directed mostly on the electrode. That’s why it seems hotter using dcep.
Straight polarity dcen: straight electrode negative (SEN) short for senator, reverse polarity dcep: reverse electrode positive (REP) short for representative. Just a trick to remember how to determine straight polarity from reverse polarity. Superfine video!
Thanks Richard and I want to thank you for your great comment in the previous video. It was one of the ones that prompted me to do a follow up video! I like your memory trick for remembering polarity! Awesome!
Good job . With those skinny rods (which I try to avoid using), I sometimes hold a second rod at roughly 90° or so under the rod in the stinger to get going. I learnt on 6013s, on AC (only time we had DC was from the diesel generator setup) we ran em hot, they ran fine, always had the slag peel right back, never needed chipping hammer or wire brush, maybe they don't make 6013s like they used to or at lower amps on inverters they don't run well? Cute lil Winston Churchill impersonator you have there :)
Thanks buddy! Interesting idea on using the 2nd rod...I will have to give it a try! The slag seemed to come loose a little easier for me on dcen than dcep but it wasn't peeling back like you mentioned. It's satisfying when it does though. He grand baby is a lot of fun. I compared him to the original "Uncle Fester" on a show called Adams Family.
Good video! I welded 2 hooks on my tractor bucket with the HF 80A inverter with1/16 rods, No idea how many passes, when I was done the bucket looked like I was cleaning up after 50 kids on the 4th of July! Still holding though!
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